KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Yes. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. ! We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? (3ft-3in wide). It may take more than 1 beer:). Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet, such as from a plumbing leak, or from infiltration on an exterior wall (as unlikely as that might be). I imagine we could share some good stories. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. They are square. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. You provide the pitch during the tile set. I usually use Durock. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. Cut the shower tray to size. For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Hi David. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Step 1: Measure the area. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. Let's start! If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. . Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. . Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? To line niche shelves, for instance. LONDON. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. x 60 in. Your email address will not be published. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. Welcome to the site. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. Step 2: Determine the room's center. Step 8: Allow to dry. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. ;). Go with smaller bags or only mix half. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. the cost of the tile job. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. There are numerous ways to do this. All it takes is the right preparation. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. How did this project turn out? On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs.